[Dave L]

https://archive.ph/iZmM0

Stuart Barnes of course.

Our attendances have felt dispiriting so far this season. Our on the pitch (relative) success doesn't seem to have translated to a bigger core fan base. On the evidence of the last few seasons we seem to get much bigger crowds for Saracens, Leicester and Quinns which bumps up our average.

The last two games have probably been the least appealing to the casual fan. The Thursday night Glaws debacle and a threadbare, flailing Newcastle.

Would a move to our own ground in a more accessible urban/suburban area help?

[Olyy]

I don't really see the point in that article - feels like he just wants to have a pop at the club for no reason

[Lord Elpus]

Barnes is a one-eyed Barfite - steeped in red diesel.

[SSR]

Can only talk for myself but weekday night games killed off our two Season Tickets.

[AntSale]

I don't really see the point in that article - feels like he just wants to have a pop at the club for no reason

First time posting anything on this forum. I was at the game on Friday and actually brought two of my non-rugby watching friends along, who both had a good time but not converts yet.

Whilst I understand the concern around our attendances, the article is almost pointless ? Offer no solution or suggestions just criticism ?

I would say the price increase the last few season does discourage a casual fan, £36 for standing is a big reason for myself attending fewer games.

[dinogyro]

If the problem is football in the immediate vicinity, what could be done to attract fans from further afield? Sale has a huge catchment area, but people are not coming.

From my point of view, I like to stay over in Manchester, but sometimes the hotel cost can be prohibitive. Could the club do a deal with Local hotels? Okay, that might only bring in a few hundred, but over the whole of a season, that could be another £100,000 turnover. Actually, now that I have done some crude maths, it doesn't matter whether the ground is full or not, it's probably less than £1M difference. Considering the cost of running the teams, it's never going to make sense.

[Flumpty]

Flumpty Jnr and I are a couple who won't be able to attend for quite a while, as he's trashed his knee and goes under the knife on (hopefully) Wednesday.

Seperately, I didn't realise that its now £36 for an adult standing ticket. Ouch.

[dinogyro]

Yes and £50 or £55 for seated. £110 if you want a padded seat in the middle.

[The Back Row]

Too many Friday night games two seaons ago killed the habit, reduced Premiership with ridiculous gaps between games killed the interest, one off prices killed the interest in the odd game.

[Yareet]

Too many Friday night games two seaons ago killed the habit, reduced Premiership with ridiculous gaps between games killed the interest, one off prices killed the interest in the odd game.

I gave up my season ticket in 2008 when I left the area but my memory of that time was that home games were mainly on Friday nights. It’s not been 2 seasons.

And as stated before, you can either have no England players around during the autumn tests and six nations or you have gaps in the Prem during those periods. Or you move the internationals to after the Prem is finished. People have complained about both of the first two options and the third seems to be a non-starter.

[RinTin]

For me it's the specific location of the stadium and accessibility. We have, by far, the worst position of any club in the league.

[dinogyro]

What exactly is 'not ideal' about the stadium? The location or that the club don't own it?

[RinTin]

What exactly is 'not ideal' about the stadium? The location or that the club don't own it?

Are you quoting someone with the 'not ideal'?? Is it for me?

It's not accessible. No train station within walking distance, no big residential areas immediately nearby, no row of bars/ pubs nearby. It puts us on the back foot with new fans immediately, especially casual fans in the area.

Look at half the league and how close they are to major transport hubs, how central they are, how easy it is to visit.

I speak from experience as I live 2 hours south. I have been down to Bath for a game in the last 6 months, also to Gloucester. They are so easy and convenient comparted to us.

[ageinghoody]

What exactly is 'not ideal' about the stadium? The location or that the club don't own it?

For me it's the location.

I doubt that the ownership of the stadium figures largely in most potential punters decisions.

Admittedly I was probably spoiled in the EP days, with a 12/15 minute drive into Stockport, park behind the Town Hall and a 12/15 minute walk from there. This was on a Friday after getting home from work, changing and eating with no need to rush, and then I still had Saturday free to handle family commitments.

It was the change to mainly Saturday home matches that finally made my season ticket unfeasible. That got even worse when published match days would be switched from Saturday to Friday or vice-versa apparently willy-nilly.

I'd also mention that attendances pushing 10,000 were not unusual then!

I'm fully aware that the situation at EP, not least the condition of the stadium, made remaining there untenable, but I believe the proximity to convenient public transport played a large part in the attendances we enjoyed then. The lack of that certainly deters me from making the journey to (or more significantly from) the Salford Corpacq Community whatever, even though I'm now retired. Also, don't forget the numerous local hostelries around EP!

We have neither of these two advantages in our current location.

I also have to admit, I found little I could disagree with in the article! The tone seemed broadly sympathetic to me.

[dinogyro]

What exactly is 'not ideal' about the stadium? The location or that the club don't own it?

Are you quoting someone with the 'not ideal'?? Is it for me?

It's not accessible. No train station within walking distance, no big residential areas immediately nearby, no row of bars/ pubs nearby. It puts us on the back foot with new fans immediately, especially casual fans in the area.

Look at half the league and how close they are to major transport hubs, how central they are, how easy it is to visit.

I speak from experience as I live 2 hours south. I have been down to Bath for a game in the last 6 months, also to Gloucester. They are so easy and convenient comparted to us.

I was quoting from the article.

If you are in Manchester (I'm near Blackpool), it's not that hard to get to the ground if you are near a Metro station. But I guess access is a problem if you're coming from far.

Playing days are different for everyone, due to personal commitments. I'd have a season ticket if they played Thursdays!

[exileneal]

About twenty years ago (the Premiership winning season) I had a season ticket for Edgeley Park. I lived in Sheffield at uni for the time but being a short walk to Stockport station and having many pubs nearby meant that whether it was a Friday or weekend game I was able to get the game and have an evening out easily.

Absolutely not the case now - even when I am back home in Manchester at Christmas or a weekend it’s just too arduous a journey to get to the stadium on public transport and not having a car so I never go. Appreciate that most people do have access to a car but imagine of those a proportion of those don’t fancy the traffic jams and/or not being able to have a drink on their Friday night and so are put off by that.

[ChorltonShark]

Transport is definitely an issue for me. Living in south Manchester without a car, it takes an hour to get there on a good day. I don't usually get back until after 10.30 on Friday night.

[ChorltonShark]

There were a lot more opportunities for post match pints at Edgeley se well, which definitely helped when it came to persuading non Rugby friends to come along!

[Halifaxshark]

I agree with most comments above. Before I reply I actually don’t want to offend anyone or the club here, these opinions are subjective so I’m not looking for an argument but I think there’s actually a lot of truth to the article.

I had a season ticket for many seasons, I only recently gave it up. I’ve picked and choosed my games since so I echo the Quins, Sarries, Tigers games comment above, but Newcastle, Thursday night Glos etc I will happily watch at home.

As you can tell from my handle name, I’m from Yorkshire but work in Manchester, rugby league territory with a love for both sports. The best comparison I can give is, I took my wife and two kids to a Sale Premiership game recently and it cost me £110 before transport, food or drink. My son wanted to watch a Leeds Rhinos super league game in summer and two adults and two kids cost me £55, they even sent me a voucher for 50% off my next game with my first purchase.

Sale play 90% of there games on a Friday night, that means rushing out of school and work, getting on the M62 as quickly as possible, suffering in rush hour traffic then getting to the Trafford centre, struggling to find a parking spot and jumping on a bus that used to be free but now costs money, panicking that we might miss the start of the game and getting to our seats as quickly as possible. After the game, getting on the bus is normally a long wait, back to the car and get back onto the M62 for 10.30ish. Other than one game on Thursday & Friday for TV, the super league is on Saturday or Sunday afternoons, much more accessible and time appropriate. It’s a train and a five minute walk to the ground. Me and my son love Sale, but my wife and daughter not so much, the club try and I appreciate that but the truth is there’s very little encouraging them to come to a game other than the actual rugby.

As season ticket holders my lad used to have photos and get autographs by all the home and away players, we even used to stand inside the reception area and wait for the players, with lots of others. However the last few times we have been the stewards have been in a rush to ask you leave the stadium and they refuse you access to the reception area anymore. I understand there’s media, sponsers, partners of players etc who are waiting upstairs but it does sometimes feel counter productive in getting younger fans interested in coming to a game.

However minor it sounds, little things like paying £7 for a flat pint of lager that’s been pre served in bulk in a plastic glass or seeing the countless number on errors on the social media posts, it doesn’t deter me from coming to a game but it certainly doesn’t encourage me either.

[dinogyro]

With those prices, I'm wishing I preferred RL. Or even liked it a little bit!

[Surbiton_Shark]

It's an interesting article.

When I watched on Friday it was noticeable the attendance seems down. If I remember last year wasn't great - the year before towards the end was pretty good.

For me it's extremely heavily driven by the location - or the perception of how difficult the stadium is to get to. Sarries for all their success still have comparatively poor attendances as it really is a pig to get to.

Bath/Quins/Leics (ones I have all been to) are great - train station nearby - 10 min walk at the other end. Pre / post drink food/drink options plus they provide much greater options that are offered at the stadium. I quite embarrassed a few seasons ago when we played Leics in the home semi - a work friend is a tigers season ticket fan. They even missed the start of the match due to the queues to get into the North stand and that's without mentioning our lack of facilities - I know the council own it all etc., but it's all getting a bit tiring that literally nothing changes apart we lost the marque.

With the additional costs combined with accessibility seems to have the biggest impact on our numbers. Real shame really when we're so strong at home performance wise. I'm from Sale originally and know a lot of people that turned up regularly at Heywood Road, few drinks in the Brook/Little B watch on a Saturday / Sunday afternoon when we left, a few kept going to Stockport - when it went to our current location only the real hard core fans remained.

[RinTin]

In summary we all think the same - low attendance is mainly down to stadium location.

[JohnJ of HM]

I think the access problems are overstated and a perception from the early days at the stadium.
I live on the Heald Green/Wythenshawe border and last Friday I was there and parked up at the stadium in 25 mins to half an hour. In 10 mins I was in my seat with a pint and a pie. Afterwards I got to my car at 9.37 and was home at 10.10.

As to Friday evenings I see loads of people who, like me, are committed to their own clubs on a Saturday and so can't go on Saturdays. I missed the Bristol game for that reason

[SSR]

I still think that the ground situation is a bit of a red herring as if we are trying to widen the
catchment to the whole of Gt Manchester, then travel to the ground will always be a problem
for many.
If there was ample parking at the ground ( at a reasonable price ) and the match day experience
was better, then people might be more attracted to it ( but not necessarily on a Friday night).

[RinTin]

There's nothing red herring about it. You put it near to a railway station and in a more central built up area and attendances would increase. Attending becomes all the more appealing to the casual viewer, and it makes it easier for the more loyal fans to attend.

Trafford Athletic club was the spot I always thought would be perfect as Chorlton Station isn't far, bus routes go through there, a lot of parking could be established on site and you have pubs within 5 minute walk. It's same side of Manc so doesn't alienate any existing fans, and is also right off the M60.

[Yareet]

There's nothing red herring about it. You put it near to a railway station and in a more central built up area and attendances would increase. Attending becomes all the more appealing to the casual viewer, and it makes it easier for the more loyal fans to attend.

Trafford Athletic club was the spot I always thought would be perfect as Chorlton Station isn't far, bus routes go through there, a lot of parking could be established on site and you have pubs within 5 minute walk. It's same side of Manc so doesn't alienate any existing fans, and is also right off the M60.

Excuse my ignorance but is it for sale? And if not, what sites are available and fit the criteria?

[RinTin]

Oh it's not, I just always thought it would be a good spot/ area when all the stuff with the AJ Bell was going on a few years back.

[ageinghoody]

From previous experiences when looking to move back to or near Sale, I'd say Trafford Council have made it quite clear that they don't want us!

[SSR]

This is a circular argument as most stations are on a line out of piccadilly or victoria.
Travelling across manchester involves multiple changes from trams or trains into the
centre and out again to your destination. Not quick and for the most part not cost effective
or timely. I totally accept the argument that if a ground is within walking distance of
train/tram station then that it will be very convenient for some.
Love it or loathe it, the circular M60 makes travel to another part of outskirts Manc much
quicker if out of peak travel time. It makes sense to have a ground somewhere on the M60.
Then the question is only about parking and enjoyment at the ground.
I very much doubt that we have a new ground as a priority as finding a site will be difficult.
We need to make the Salford ground more attractive if we want more fans and convince
people that travelling is worth the effort.

[Surbiton_Shark]

This is a circular argument as most stations are on a line out of piccadilly or victoria.
Travelling across manchester involves multiple changes from trams or trains into the
centre and out again to your destination. Not quick and for the most part not cost effective
or timely. I totally accept the argument that if a ground is within walking distance of
train/tram station then that it will be very convenient for some.
Love it or loathe it, the circular M60 makes travel to another part of outskirts Manc much
quicker if out of peak travel time. It makes sense to have a ground somewhere on the M60.
Then the question is only about parking and enjoyment at the ground.
I very much doubt that we have a new ground as a priority as finding a site will be difficult.
We need to make the Salford ground more attractive if we want more fans and convince
people that travelling is worth the effort.

In by absolutely no means do I belittle any of the effort made by the Sale staff, owners, supporters club who continually try and improve the match day experience ....but it's been 13 years since we moved there. You could argue the car parking is worse than it was and in general the fan experience despite best efforts (ruck truck is great) won't persuade people to come. I just can't see what they can do whilst the ownership of the stadium is with the council - what will change that hasn't been tried in the last 13 years?

[exileneal]

Although earlier on in the thread I talked about how the travel etc was an issue for me (albeit as someone who now lives in London, even a more convenient location near a train station or tram stop wouldn’t really see me attending that much more anyway) I think another important point in the article is just how much football affects the market in Manchester.

Absolutely nothing anyone can do about that but guess it goes back to the fact that if you have less interest from the local population anyway then maximising the experience (whether travel, facilities or whatever else might be relevant) so that you get more attendance from the people who do (or may) have an interest is more important than it might be elsewhere in the country. In that context our low attendances are almost a perfect storm to some extent of being in such a football heartland and the stadium location/facilities/surrounding area not being the most attractive.

All we can ask for in that situation is that the club plays the hand it is dealt as well as possible. As I go so rarely I’m not able to cast a reasoned judgement on that and will leave it to those a bit closer to the matter.

[RinTin]

Maximise what we have on and off the pitch. Get some big names playing to bring in fans. Manu paid for himself virtually in that regard - people wanted to see him play. On the pitch play an exciting brand of rugby. Community out reach and fan interactions are key as they help build supporter bases. These are all the more important based on the obvious stadium limitations.

[ledzepsfr]

It is what it is.
IMO If Sale won the Prem and Heineken Cup (whatever it's called these days) three years running I doubt that they would attract huge audiences week in week out. If the owners think that it is the location of the ground that causes low attendances, then move. They have done it before, as have other clubs, with varying degrees of success.

[Stoke Shark]

Talk in the South Stand on Friday is that we’re looking to build / share a ground with Altrincham FC within next 5 years ? Simon and Michelle have invested into the football club and, they were offering free tickets to the Gloucester game for Alty FC ST holders.

[SSR]

Our history of ground sharing is not a strength. What happened with the ground sharing with
United FC ( was it ), did it all fall through ?

[dinogyro]

It could well be that filling the ground is not a priority? How much extra money would the extra 2/3000 make? £1 million? As opposed to filling the corporate spaces?

[RinTin]

It could well be that filling the ground is not a priority? How much extra money would the extra 2/3000 make? £1 million? As opposed to filling the corporate spaces?

Average an extra 2,500 supporters over say 12 home games, and you're in for as much as £1.5 million on the gate, plus the extra merchandise sales, drinks/ food etc. I'd estimate it's worth a an extra £2 million in reality. Not far off one third of our annual player wage bill.

Do players want to come and play in a half empty ground? Our ability to draw in players/ retain talent can be influenced by the crowds they are running out to and level of support they feel.

[dinogyro]

I don't think the club get any of the food/drink sales.

However, the point about the effect on players with a half-empty ground is very important. I hadn't considered that.

[Surbiton_Shark]

For those that have TNT - and it maybe on YouTube TNT channel....there was 30 min show with Flats/Healey - they are going to all the clubs

The interesting part of it - apart from Bristol's training facility was the interview with the owner.

Basically - no money in rugby, only way to get commercially viable is bums on seats therefore for him - the team have to play attractive rugby and Bristol HAVE to make the fans experience great - he said hopefully they win more than they lose at home. Even if they win the prem he said it makes little difference commercially so the priority is bums on seats

[dinogyro]

A bit old, but still interesting:

https://www.gloucesterbid.uk/news/glouc ... ng-crisis/